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Chapter 54 : page 6

Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Kern » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:08 am

The pacified colonists watches the silent takeover and the people on deck witness their success.
In case there is any confusion, Faen's surprise of being tugged has passed over to some people below. Empathy is the abillity to sense and transfer emotions. Likely some got annoyed when Ash felt annoyed at Faen as well.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Smokehammer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:22 am

Damn Ash. If you dont like kids, quit having so many. Overpopulation was a HUGE problem in Chel. Sheesh.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Whizzard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:24 am

Ah, mind control at it's finest. Not a brutish inelegant direct control but just manipulation of their emotions. In this case, keeping the population from panicking and doing something rash.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby El Bandito » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:59 am

Glad it was a smooth takeover. I like this colony.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Seraphina126 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:51 am

Smokehammer wrote:Damn Ash. If you dont like kids, quit having so many. Overpopulation was a HUGE problem in Chel. Sheesh.


Ash'waren thinking while looking at Faen: *Damn, that REALLY was a terrible mate back then...*

:V

I'm kinda still curious as to who Faen's father truly is....
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Dalvyserran » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:58 am

Of course, it looks like Bae'rali is being forced to help--there is no way she would change direction that damn fast.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Pitdragon » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Eh, empathic nudging is still taking control of one self out of one's hands. Even if it is light pacification, and especially in situations where the empath is trying to take control, it'll always be a little squicky to me. Especially since it looks like they're just sort of making people think nothing is happening when something is...
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby SzordrinZaphresz » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:10 pm

Pitdragon wrote:Eh, empathic nudging is still taking control of one self out of one's hands. Even if it is light pacification, and especially in situations where the empath is trying to take control, it'll always be a little squicky to me. Especially since it looks like they're just sort of making people think nothing is happening when something is...


It's the "least bad" option they had.

Pulan and Octarya continue to be adorable! They're good kids. They'll make fine citizens someday.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Ardan Styyx » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:24 pm

SzordrinZaphresz wrote: It's the "least bad" option they had.


It's the BEST option they had and they took it : better seize power without spilling uncessary blood of non-combattant comoners than to make a bloodbath.

SzordrinZaphresz wrote:Pulan and Octarya continue to be adorable! They're good kids. They'll make fine citizens someday.



Probably, thanks for caring and loving people around them, like Faen, Thera and Vaelia. Not like the heartless old generation mothers! There is finaly hope for the race!
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Moric » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:57 pm

Pitdragon wrote:Eh, empathic nudging is still taking control of one self out of one's hands. Even if it is light pacification, and especially in situations where the empath is trying to take control, it'll always be a little squicky to me. Especially since it looks like they're just sort of making people think nothing is happening when something is...

Eh, it's hard to make somone address the ethical questions when the underlying philosophical reasoning to such questions hasn't yet been proposed. That said, I have a hypothetical exchange, say circa MA 500:

(A Sharen dragon knight conversing with a Sullisin'rune empath at a tavern)

Sharen: You Sul's sicken me, playing with people's minds like toys!

Sul: You mean like how we alter others' sense of what is real and manipulate their feelings soley to get them to do what we want?

Sharen: (taken aback by the honest admission) Well...yes... That's exactly what I mean.

Sul: Ah, well, I will be happy to cease to ever use my empathy again...

Sharen: You would!?

Sul: Why yes, provided that your clan stops doing the same thing with your religious propaganda machine.

(Sul empath walks away from a confused Sharen.)

(Upon reaching the door, turns to the audience and winks.)
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Smokehammer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:17 pm

Only people choose their religion of their own free will. That's why there's so many of them even in this pretty irreverent culture. Plus, there's significantly more to spirituality than "altering the truth and manipulating peoples feelings soley to get what you want". Its a search for the truth for many. In the practice of Sharess worship its presumably including Sharess at the top of the already present ancestor worship because she did indeed save everyone with her sacrifice. Reminding people of that isnt altering the truth, and it didnt go over with everyone so the Sharen hadnt gotten what they wanted out of it for a long time (which was btw respect, which isnt in of its self a terrible thing).

However its quite possible that the people in Ys really respected and admired the counsel they had, and wanted nothing to do with Ariel and her war. Remember how badly the Sargs treated that poor lady in the district the land lady kicked them out of? Or how the last time we saw them they were inventing martial law? If this wasnt a comic, those people could easily suffer upon re-occupation terribly because they
"didnt resist" the Wolf Pack.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Moric » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:38 pm

Yes Smokehammer, excellent points. I was making a ham-handed attempt of showing points of view on the matter from the Sul perspective. All on a cellphone while trying to get a teething toddler down. ^^;
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Nowhere Girl » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:40 pm

Smokehammer wrote:Only people choose their religion of their own free will.


Oh, you sweet summer child.

Religious belief is indoctrinated in youth, and even which religions can be under consideration are driven by one's cultural circumstances, which also shape so-called "free will" far more than you will probably ever fully realize.

To say that people simply choose religion of their own free will, as though that were all or even most of what there is to it, is both a gross oversimplification and also hopelessly naive. It's simply not correct.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Moric » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:50 pm

Nowhere Girl wrote:
Smokehammer wrote:Only people choose their religion of their own free will.


Oh, you sweet summer child.

Yes, it's complicated, but Smokehammer's assertion is not entirely untrue either.

A century ago, differing from one's familial/regional/national religion was deeply scandalous, but things have changed. Converts and apostates alike do abound, regardless of religion (and/or professed lack thereof). Yes, many do carry on out of familial inertia, but they often tend towards nominal participation. Even then, some youth have a zeal that hasn't existed in their family for generations.

But then, all human behavior tends toward messiness.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 6

Postby Smokehammer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:14 pm

Moric wrote:A century ago, differing from one's familial/regional/national religion was deeply scandalous, things have changed. Converts and apostates alike do abound, regardless of religion (and/or professed lack thereof).
And they pretty much always have. People tend to "go with the flow" true and there's something to how youre raised and where coloring your outlook on life but these guys simply dont have that sort of religious structure. Its less even than our modern concepts. "Worshiping" Sharess was giving credence to why the Sharen should be obeyed and pretty much no one, including the major Sharen themselves, AND the fanatical Sharessite Kyorl believed that after awhile.

Nowhere Girl wrote:Oh, you sweet summer child.

Religious belief is indoctrinated in youth, and even which religions can be under consideration are driven by one's cultural circumstances, which also shape so-called "free will" far more than you will probably ever fully realize.

To say that people simply choose religion of their own free will, as though that were all or even most of what there is to it, is both a gross oversimplification and also hopelessly naive. It's simply not correct.

Edit: Perhaps I should rephrase this in the context of the story so as not to annoy the mods or go completely off topic.

If Quain’tana had been born a daughter of Diva she might have held Sharess in different light for the first part of her life (that is, that she was destined to rule Chel because of who she was) but given her tempestuous nature and issues with authority, Im willing to bet that she would’ve been a daughter to Diva in much the same way Mel is to her. That would in turn, combined with cold hard reality sinking in after awhile (defeats in battle, the general shape of Chel deteriorating, more powerful Clans like the Belds taking center seat etc)eventually still see her questioning the validity of ancestor worship and led her to the same conclusion as she had as Quain’tana Sarghress rather than Sharen - life is what you make of it.

You could argue Mel is the way she is due to her experiences but that brings us to Ariel. Ariel had a shitty childhood too, yet she’s extremely respectful. If you say oh that’s Kel’s influence, think for an instant about how much Kel didn’t help Ariel. If that had been Mel, she would’ve been crying over how much everything was Syph’s fault to this day, and if it had been Quain, she would’ve rigged her door and a dinner knife in such a way as to slay Syph instead of just giving wanting her dead lip service.

Also, if Ariel had been born Sharen she surely would’ve been a devout Sharess worshipper, and completely loyal to Diva, yet given her tendency towards the human version of empathy, probably would’ve “freed” her protector twin and then ran off to be a Val born relic hunter because she couldn’t change people’s plight for the better and she has zero interest in being a leader. Would she have come home if she were still alive to fight alongside Nishi after the Twisted Three made their move? Im guessing yes, because she also has a strong sense of duty. Aka, her spirit, or personality if you prefer, would ultimately lead her down the same path she’s on now.

In my observation, I think you would be surprised by how little a person's circumstances truly color their lives in comparison to their basic, intrinsic nature. That's what Ive come to expect in my 40years of being here. You however may gain(or have) a different perspective, and thats also one of the joys of each of us being an individual.
Last edited by Smokehammer on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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