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chapter 54 : page 2

Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Dalvyserran » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:02 pm

You're still not taking into account that this group has been branded as enemies of the empire. I would think that repeated failed attempts to dominate with this airship indicate that just because they have possession, doesn't mean it's a shoe-in to take over.

1) they are still few versus many. The same thing they did to the Nids can happen to Ariel
2) these "many" have zero reason to turn their backs on Felde, so now you have rebellion to deal with
3) Ash'waren can't even control her own clan, so how will she manage a fairly large colony of dissidents? Same thing for Kel'noz, seriously
4) pillage Ys? We send the Legion to erase Machike for good

So, heroine, what do you do in this situation?
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby PSadlon » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:18 pm

They were already considered enemies. If not for Kyo being there, the airship would have started with it's bombardment. The Sarg's enemies since tried to eliminate them twice and were looking to finish the job when Ariel & Crew set their trap stole the ship from them.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Moric » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:21 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:Of course, they could bomb Ys, wreck lives and kill the council to send a statement to the enemy

but that would make them no better than the Nids, and give the Alliance-led Legion more reason to exterminate Ariel and anyone left behind in Machike associated with her. (Like her siblings)

Ys won't be left looking like Desden 1945. Executed properly, this is pretty much a hostile takeover of upper management, which is pretty much as traditional for drow as new management is for a sports team.

Also, that legion is already marching to exterminate. So exactly how does make things worse for the Wolfpack? Dead is pretty much a binary status.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby evilmike » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:45 pm

Bout damn time she started channeling her Inner Sargy.

Now all she has to do is read up on Eddie Longshanks and maybe a little Betty Number One and she'll have it down cold.

*smokes a fat cigar*
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Ethanial_F'dian » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:55 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_diplomacy

Exactly like Kyo'nne did it (or tried to)
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Margirita » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm

I think Ariel is gonna tell the green lady a nice story about how she told the people on the air boat to go away and how the people on the air boat turned around outta range and blew them to kingdom come. Then Ariel's going to explain that that's how Snad works, she is fine as long and you tell her what she wants to hear, but the very moment you don't is the moment your trash to be thrown away. Then Ariel is going to ask a important question....What's to keep me from doing the same thing to you? HUH? Ariel is going to claim that she knows they are all Snad's puppets and this is their last chance. Then things may go BOOM....I shall watch and see.

+90 table flip skill
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Moric » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:41 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:You're still not taking into account that this group has been branded as enemies of the empire. I would think that repeated failed attempts to dominate with this airship indicate that just because they have possession, doesn't mean it's a shoe-in to take over.

How far has that word traveled? Openly stating that there is a rebellious city-state that hasn't been forced to submit is a huge sign of weakness, and a gathering point for resistance.

Actually, above ground, the ship has had a pretty good record. The first strike against Machike was pretty much a leisurely game of picking off defenses and blowing stuff up. The second strike was scrubbed by cables and a canon while descending a fissure. The third was pretty much a success of smashing a city, but the Nids were after leadership, not the populace.
Dalvyserran wrote:1) they are still few versus many. The same thing they did to the Nids can happen to Ariel

If the Nids had just sat on the ruins with guns readied, and let the Sarg faithful flee, who would run Machike?
Dalvyserran wrote:2) these "many" have zero reason to turn their backs on Felde, so now you have rebellion to deal with

Zero, other than not wanting to die just yet. On one hand, the colonists may not like the dangerous outlaws who just beat their patron's elite strike force, stole their WMD airship, and just slaughtered the most powerful people in town. On the other is the idea of actively try to fight those outlaws and their airship. So long as the population of Ys aren't completely screwed over by the new guys to near death, there won't be too much other than grumbling. Okay, there may be a couple of assassination attempts by loyalists, but full fledged resistance is not plausible.
Dalvyserran wrote:3) Ash'waren can't even control her own clan, so how will she manage a fairly large colony of dissidents? Same thing for Kel'noz, seriously

There's a difference between controlling a clan chock full of disgruntled empaths and a town full of mundanes who fled to Ys to escape the violence of Chel. Also, Faen might be able to link up.
Dalvyserran wrote:4) pillage Ys? We send the Legion to erase Machike for good

The Legion is already coming to exterminate them. So, what's the downside of pissing Snadhya off more?
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Moric » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:30 pm

Margirita wrote:I think Ariel is gonna tell the green lady a nice story about ...

I think the story is pretty much going to be "You chose...poorly."
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Kardwill » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:29 pm

Looks like Ariel doesn't want to be a victime anymore. "I got my people slaughtered last time I was reasonable. Granny was right : Maybe gorilla-smashing faces isn't much safer, sure, but it's much more satisfying, and at least you get some respect"



Moric wrote:6. Speaking of which, Vassal's rule #1: Support your liege even with your life, or (s)he may take your land, title, life, and family. Vassal's rule #2: If someone knocked off your liege, that person is your liege now.

Vassal's rule #3 : Always be on the lookout for opportunities and keep a dagger close at hand. If your liege ever shows weakness, maybe you could be that lucky "someone" in rule #2.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Smokehammer » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:52 pm

The biggest issue is why is the Wolf Pack here at all? I know theyre looking for allies but they couldve gone to Chel(on foot, covertly) and had better luck statistically. And the supplies theory doesnt hold water at all as surely Shashi is close to Felde than Ys. With the citizens of the Alliance settled in and happy, as rebels they have virtually nothing going for them except the element of surprise and audacity so why didnt they fly straight to Felde?
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Moric » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:48 am

Smokehammer wrote:The biggest issue is why is the Wolf Pack here at all? I know theyre looking for allies but they couldve gone to Chel(on foot, covertly) and had better luck statistically.

They already sent for help from Chel. Sadly, they are three years behind on the news, have no idea who is on who's side, and have neither the time nor the resources to establish resistance cells before the Alliance comes knocking.
Smokehammer wrote:And the supplies theory doesnt hold water at all as surely Shashi is close to Felde than Ys.

Shashi has food and supplies. Not a whole lot, but they aren't going to die of want. Machike on the other hand...
Smokehammer wrote:With the citizens of the Alliance settled in and happy, as rebels they have virtually nothing going for them except the element of surprise and audacity

And a ship that can raze the colony to the ground. [edit]Also, a bunch of cameos onboard and likely a squadron of Kavahini to boot. Get the popcorn ready![/edit]
Smokehammer wrote:so why didnt they fly straight to Felde?

Simple. Any attack on Felde, in order to be successful, requires an even better turtle than the last one. :3
In all seriousness, taking Ys would be far easier than cracking open Felde. Felde is for the final boss-fight, and the band isn't even fully together....
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby The14th » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:30 am

Well shit, I didn't think they would be this aggressive this fast. It must be especially dire that Kel'noz is part of this, he is usually not for rash action.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Moric » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:32 am

The14th wrote:Well shit, I didn't think they would be this aggressive this fast. It must be especially dire that Kel'noz is part of this, he is usually not for rash action.

You would be desperate too if you had to fulfill Kel'noz's airship rental agreement for over a week.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Pitdragon » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:53 am

Gives the Legion a better reason to attack. Being independent or taking the airship by fighting back? Probably could've still talked someone like Sang to their side. Hit one of the colonies that could be supplying food to Chel (the lift isn't far from here, remembering back to Ariel's Arc 2 return to the Surface)? That complicates things. Stability of the Underworld could be at stake if it seems like this group could do this to every colony it visits. Sang likely is holding to the Alliance (as she is the "short woman" that Kyo'nne mentioned in that fateful meeting at Machike) because stability severely outweighs her own grudges, and also because Quain got them into it and it isn't easy to wiggle out of that. Sang might also go for the hunt because her getting ahold of Ariel could boost her position, as she was trying to do when things were breaking down before the recent time skip. But this will just give even better reasoning to it.

And I'm a bit puzzled by this choice as well. Felde perhaps is the best stocked or the worst threat to them, but at the same time it just means those that didn't get the story will think differently, or even hear a twisted version of the original story where Ariel's group instead jumped an "envoy" on the airship and stole it, then tore across the Underworld. The people of Shashi are less likely to be moving about spreading that part of the story, and the people of Machike are either dead or hunkering down... or could be considered not trustworthy. If Sang or any other Alliance group are convinced to lie about the circumstances of Machike's damage (damaged in the fight for control over the ship, for example), then it becomes he-said-she-said.

Despite the victory of getting the ship, there is no easy play here that won't cause hardship. Accepting would've made her a hostage and pawn of Snadhya to ensure the De'vesses of the Sarghress aren't in control (they may be playing nice now, but it may be clear they cannot be easily manipulated for long). Not accepting led to the attack, no avoiding that really. Taking the ship only now makes it look like the Machike group are real renegades (whether they jumped the group at Machike or as they truly did later). Everything can be twisted by enemies to sway those that weren't there and are frightened of losing stability after that long District War. Wonder where Quill will fit in... she's obviously elsewhere on the Surface, but not easily reached. :/
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Re: chapter 54 : page 2

Postby Smokehammer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:41 am

Well, to Ariel, Kel and Ashie's credit IF they can use the airship to sack or ally with every colony they could try starving out the Alliance ..but... they dont have the District War stretching resources so they'd have to bomb major trade routes etc, -basically fight a long fight and they dont have the people for that.

Moric wrote:They already sent for help from Chel. Sadly, they are three years behind on the news, have no idea who is on who's side, and have neither the time nor the resources to establish resistance cells before the Alliance comes knocking.
From the SARGS, they never talked to Sillice & Kiel.
Shashi has food and supplies. Not a whole lot, but they aren't going to die of want. Machike on the other hand...
Good point but whats left of Machike were colonists -aka resourceful people used to going without anything they cant make on their own. Im pretty sure hunting would be like 20x easier than raiding a neighbor while youre pretty much at war with a much bigger power.

In all seriousness, taking Ys would be far easier than cracking open Felde.
Sure, in fact without the element of surprise Felde should be impossible to take for this ragtag bunch unless most of Min joins up(not just the owls).
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