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Chapter 53 : page 13

Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby SzordrinZaphresz » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:22 am

Ooh boy. Chiri's got it bad! That's some serious mood swinging. Sure, she wants the kid, but she's scared, worried about the future, and her own insecurities are finally bubbling up to the surface, now that she knows she won't be reviled or attacked for them, and on-top of everything else, her's body's doing the hormone maccarena! And she had a fiery temper to begin with!

Shan, my boy, you are a cannonized saint. Chiri's lucky to have you, and she knows it.
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Lee'yane » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:35 am

Smokehammer wrote:Perhaps. But I dont think Chiri's adverse to the idea of having a child. More specifically, she doesnt want to have a light elf child. Im going to assume from the dialog that she was assigned temporarily to the colony, so if she had such an issue then she couldve easily avoided any such problem by simple abstinence until her return to the underworld.

While all of this is likely right on the mark, I got the feeling from their reactions to the pregnancy announcement that Chiri didn't think she would have a light elf baby by being there. And while I'm sure she probably could've figured this might of resulted in a light elf baby there, hindsight is still 20/20 when you don't have prophetic visions* and when you take the let-it-happen approach to the possibility of getting pregnant there's this tendency not to think of the consequences of things like location or diet etc. Pretty sure that's why there's a lot of people who have to cut a vacation short when they find out they're pregnant even when they'd planned the vacation months in advanced.

* Speaking of prophetic visions, I wonder if Chiri became reliant on her visions too much to make decisions like this without them?
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Smokehammer » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:08 am

But it still feels like an extreme projection of responsibility. Granted, like Szord and Cody have pointed out, its mainly from her being on an emotional roller coaster, but that doesnt stop me from finding her angst amusing rather than touching because it is of her own making.

Lee'yane wrote:I got the feeling from their reactions to the pregnancy announcement that Chiri didn't think she would have a light elf baby by being there
I dunno. The whole premise for one arc of their storyline was that Ssu are light elf drow. Since its pretty common knowledge that Laths turn back into dark elves from surface births that they couldnt put two and two together to get 4 would be pretty damn fantastical.

Of course there's another possibility here too - Chiri may have "responsibly" gotten pregnant underground, and was then shipped topside by Ana who Chiri suspects knew she was expecting (because Ana knows EVERYTHING). After all, we really dont know for certain why Chiri's so upset with/suspicious of Ana, and we dont know how long theyve been at this colony. I doubt its more than Chiri going apeshit as a first time mom though. *shrug*
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby GrantedWhim » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:45 am

Is it just me or does Shan look like he has been stabbed in the last panel?

Chiri is so hung up on prophecies that she's forgotten that she was the one who made the choices that have lead her here, if she stays like this she'll destroy the good thing she(and not so prophecy) has made possible. Anahid simply put the cake in front of Chiri, she is the one who chose to eat it(probably not the best analogy, but...). Shan was trying to follow the path he thought chiri wanted. He should have check, but he wasn't trying to lead her anywhere.

Though they are both at fault for not communicating more, that said you've go to love the way they are compare to each other with this. As I'm pretty sure that Shan hopes for a girl so that the child doesn't have to go through what he went through as a male in their society, where as Chiri's fear are also that the child with have to go through what she did.
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby nerdycanuck » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:38 pm

Smokehammer wrote:Dont want kids? Dont have sex. Its pretty damn easy, so yeah Chiri kinda asked for this because Im 100% certain Shan isnt a rapist.


That's such an unfair statement. Sure, abstinence is a thing. But to say that Chiri asked for this simply by having sex isn't cool. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that someone might want sex but not desire children. I certainly fall into that category and thus took measures to ensure that additional kids wouldn't factor into my future. Perhaps Chiri and Shan weren't careful, or perhaps they were and their measures failed.

And while I'm on the subject, unrelated to my response to Smoke, finding out you're pregnant even when it's planned can still be fairly earth shattering. It's amazing the things that go through your head when you realize you have a little life inside of you. Everything changes in an instant. It's one thing to know that's coming, but it's another thing entirely to know for sure. I'm not even sure I have the words to adequately describe that, but suffice it to say that how Chiri is reacting is perfectly normal especially in light of how out of control of her own life she's been feeling.
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Moric » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Poor Chirinide, poor Shan.

So, on top of the massive hormonal disturbance that is pregnancy, the fear of racial persecution for her child, she is without the consolation of her prescience. Ouch.

For the record, those as religiously committed as Chirinide have no problem being lead by a greater, benevolent power. They could be lead into terrible straits, but are confident in their path. It is when they feel that they are not being lead that is most disturbing. The mana deprivation must be doing quite a bit in this regard.

As for Shan'naal, he's never had visions, and has only his fidelity to Chirinide to rely on. He's no less confident in the coming blessings that await him, which can actually be even more irritating to Chirinide. That she is probably aware that her irritation caused by Shan's continued confidence is silly then piles on guilt. Oy.

So, there is the inevitable lashing out, which will only confuse everyone around her, particularly Shan. Hmmm.

Anahid might be nudging events, ones that she or her predecessors have foreseen. It may be a matter of grave necessity that these events happen, or that the ordeal itself is necessary to galvanize Chirinide's will for the future.

(starts eating popcorn)
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby AnoP » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:13 pm

nerdycanuck wrote:That's such an unfair statement. Sure, abstinence is a thing. But to say that Chiri asked for this simply by having sex isn't cool. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that someone might want sex but not desire children. I certainly fall into that category and thus took measures to ensure that additional kids wouldn't factor into my future. Perhaps Chiri and Shan weren't careful, or perhaps they were and their measures failed.

Well to be fair to Smokehammer, historical contraceptive methods is a bit esoteric. He may be under the impression that they didn't exist. Methods did exist ( I don't even know how tortoise shell condoms would work though), and the Romans supposedly made Silphium extinct, which was possibly a plant whose seeds could be used for birth control.

But yeah, basically it's completely unclear if they would have had any effective way to prevent pregnancy, or they used it. So it's a bit whatever basically.
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Dalvyserran » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:36 pm

I understand that a light elf baby will face persecution, but.. It always seems strange why Chiri and Shan, of all people, still don't realize that they are light elves. Did they forget the visit to the Order of Serenity?
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby SFI » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:I understand that a light elf baby will face persecution, but.. It always seems strange why Chiri and Shan, of all people, still don't realize that they are light elves. Did they forget the visit to the Order of Serenity?


They know this (probably) but many others do not. Remember, many Kyorl do never visit the Order of Serenity up above and probably still assume that they are just lighter offspring of Dark Elves or whatever. For them, having a Light Elf baby would be a horrible thing. Chiri is probably afraid that those Kyorl will at the very least be racist to this obviously horrifying 'mixbreed' since they don't know that Light Elf is the Ssu 'default'.
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Moric » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:25 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:I understand that a light elf baby will face persecution, but.. It always seems strange why Chiri and Shan, of all people, still don't realize that they are light elves. Did they forget the visit to the Order of Serenity?

I think that they are well aware of it. That said, they are also well aware that 99%+ of Ssu aren't, and are vehement racial purists (originally in order to survive amongst the lath population, but after 1000 years, things tend to get forgotten).
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:41 pm

Moric wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:I understand that a light elf baby will face persecution, but.. It always seems strange why Chiri and Shan, of all people, still don't realize that they are light elves. Did they forget the visit to the Order of Serenity?

I think that they are well aware of it. That said, they are also well aware that 99%+ of Ssu aren't, and are vehement racial purists (originally in order to survive amongst the lath population, but after 1000 years, things tend to get forgotten).


You would think that first thing they would do with new arrivals to the colony is to tell them the truth (because you know, anybody in the colony could have a light elf baby)... So at least everybody in the colony should know...

Kyorls back in Chel, it would take more time, but if they are planning to return to the surface they should slowly spread the truth and work to promote acceptance of it... If would be no good if Chelian drowussu broke with the colonists because they are living with light elves/having light elven children... specially now that Snadhya's power is increasing, and she could start a new horrid mess to remove all Great Clans any day... they NEED a escape-from-Chel plan...
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Runes » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:57 pm

Smokehammer wrote:Dont want kids? Dont have sex. Its pretty damn easy, so yeah Chiri kinda asked for this because Im 100% certain Shan isnt a rapist.


Never been pregnant and enjoyed all the hormones that come with it? You don't get an opinion.

Women go through enough emotionally while pregnant, they don't need to be exposed to that kind of disgusting ignorance. Even when a pregnancy is planned you can spend all 9 months terrified about whether or not you made the right decision. Add to that the worry you might give birth to a child that is different, and a freak-out like this is almost to be expected. The last thing any woman in this position would ever need is to be told 'tough luck, you did this to yourself'.
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Moric » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:13 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:You would think that first thing they would do with new arrivals to the colony is to tell them the truth (because you know, anybody in the colony could have a light elf baby)... So at least everybody in the colony should know...

Yeah... Nobody wants that job, as Suu don't tend to handle it well. Seriously, no few of them would rather die than live with that knowledge, at least at first. Just ask Judicator Lioshi.

Doom Chinchilla wrote:Kyorls back in Chel, it would take more time, but if they are planning to return to the surface they should slowly spread the truth and work to promote acceptance of it... If would be no good if Chelian drowussu broke with the colonists because they are living with light elves/having light elven children... specially now that Snadhya's power is increasing, and she could start a new horrid mess to remove all Great Clans any day... they NEED a escape-from-Chel plan...

Agreed, though keeping it quiet from the laths is the tricky part. Nothing says genocide like "white worms in disguise".
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:46 am

Moric wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:Kyorls back in Chel, it would take more time, but if they are planning to return to the surface they should slowly spread the truth and work to promote acceptance of it... If would be no good if Chelian drowussu broke with the colonists because they are living with light elves/having light elven children... specially now that Snadhya's power is increasing, and she could start a new horrid mess to remove all Great Clans any day... they NEED a escape-from-Chel plan...

Agreed, though keeping it quiet from the laths is the tricky part. Nothing says genocide like "white worms in disguise".


It will be difficult to hide from the drowolath, but they can't put it off forever... they have surface colonies now, and people giving birth there... better to start spreading the knowledge carefully now than to be forced to rush it later...
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Re: Chapter 53 : page 13

Postby Moric » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:14 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:It will be difficult to hide from the drowolath, but they can't put it off forever... they have surface colonies now, and people giving birth there... better to start spreading the knowledge carefully now than to be forced to rush it later...

Agreed as well. Perhaps all of this is foreseen as the best way to go about things. Of course, being the fulcrum upon which the survival and future of the entire nation of Ssu is neither a pleasant nor an easy task. I'm not even sure that Chirinide has really explored the full set consequences and possibilities that await, and it's already too much.
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