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Chapter 51 : page 29

Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby SerNotSoBraveAlot » Fri May 05, 2017 3:21 pm

SFI wrote:SerNotSoBraveAlot, it might work if not for one reason: the portrayal of Kiol does not fit at all with what we've seen, in fact, seems more in line with her mother Suu'be.

1. She does not want to be the Leader of Sarghress, so she wouldn't start spouting 'true leader'-propaganda
and
2. she would not ignore someone warning her 'hey, lots of your people will die if you do this'
and
3. Considering Ariel voiced several times a lack of desire to rule and even said that she'd give Kiol the leadership if she asked, I doubt she'd expect Ariel to backstab her.


Image

1. That was before this happened http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11601 just look at the newborn rivalry on the very next page http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11602 whatever lack of ambition or indifference she felt before is most likely replaced by bitterness at this point, she might not want to be the leader but there's no way in hell she'll just hand over the clan now unless something changes her views on Ariel.

2. I think at this point she probably doesn't see Ariel as worthy of leadership or particularly competent or capable as a commander (she almost lost to Goblins after all) so I doubt she'd listen to her.

3. As I said regarding your 1st point Ariel is her political and personal rival now, neither particularly wanted to rule, it was just a matter of duty for them I think, but that's all changed now.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Dalvyserran » Fri May 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Koil never wanted to be illharess

Koil also never really cared about vals enough to he directly involved with the "anti-val" crowd. She didn't like the Sharen as any Sarghress would, but she was there to fight a war; that's it.

If you're looking for a leader to pin the anti-val sentiment in, that's Sang
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby James Rye » Fri May 05, 2017 3:23 pm

"And with it better days."
Ten bucks on Vaelia dying in the next five or so chapters.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby SerNotSoBraveAlot » Fri May 05, 2017 3:32 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:Koil never wanted to be illharess

Koil also never really cared about vals enough to he directly involved with the "anti-val" crowd. She didn't like the Sharen as any Sarghress would, but she was there to fight a war; that's it.

If you're looking for a leader to pin the anti-val sentiment in, that's Sang


Image

If anything I think Sang would act like a Darth Sidious esque character towards Koil'dorath using her mother's death as a way to manipulate her into hating Ariel and the pro-alliance faction, which let's face it wouldn't be a hard thing to do after this scene http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11602
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby SFI » Fri May 05, 2017 4:03 pm

SerNotSoBraveAlot wrote:
SFI wrote:SerNotSoBraveAlot, it might work if not for one reason: the portrayal of Kiol does not fit at all with what we've seen, in fact, seems more in line with her mother Suu'be.

1. She does not want to be the Leader of Sarghress, so she wouldn't start spouting 'true leader'-propaganda
and
2. she would not ignore someone warning her 'hey, lots of your people will die if you do this'
and
3. Considering Ariel voiced several times a lack of desire to rule and even said that she'd give Kiol the leadership if she asked, I doubt she'd expect Ariel to backstab her.


Image

1. That was before this happened http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11601 just look at the newborn rivalry on the very next page http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11602 whatever lack of ambition or indifference she felt before is most likely replaced by bitterness at this point, she might not want to be the leader but there's no way in hell she'll just hand over the clan now unless something changes her views on Ariel.

2. I think at this point she probably doesn't see Ariel as worthy of leadership or particularly competent or capable as a commander (she almost lost to Goblins after all) so I doubt she'd listen to her.

3. As I said regarding your 1st point Ariel is her political and personal rival now, neither particularly wanted to rule, it was just a matter of duty for them I think, but that's all changed now.


Kern wrote:The clan's leader fell, and now the two potential heir to the clan faces each other. Although in silence, neither truly want to rule. Meanwhile Faen and the children were smuggled out, with Kau giving her farewell.
there was quite a bit of dilema on what to do once these two faces each other. Thing is, Koil would say nothing. And Ariel would say nothing. Its be a painful dragged on scene where things truly happen in the background, unfolding with time. Just like the coup happened in the background. This is why we're transitioning away from that scene. Everyone there is tense, mourning or hoping Quain will put through somehow.


Kern literally says she doesn't want to rule in the Page-thread of 212. Her face on that page is most likely from the fact that her mother died in front of her and was killed by her Commander.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Dalvyserran » Fri May 05, 2017 4:27 pm

SerNotSoBraveAlot wrote:
The Hermionne scout has so much potential for a good story arc but as much as I like DT I think they'll miss the opportunity again like last time.

[...]

But I have a feeling the Hermionne will just get instantly burned to death by some random kyorl again and that'll be it until they next get beaten the shit out of anti-climatically.


I have to agree that I've been hoping that the Hermionne turn out to be something more vicious than the Black Sun, more dangerous to stability than the Nids, and more of a challenge in direct combat. The drow largely still don't know what a Hermionne is or it's capabilities; only those who have regularly traveled the surface have an idea.

I want the Hermionne to come in force. By 52 it would be 3.5 years since a raiding party attacked Ys. I'm looking for a full scale war...
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby SerNotSoBraveAlot » Fri May 05, 2017 4:48 pm

Kern wrote:The clan's leader fell, and now the two potential heir to the clan faces each other. Although in silence, neither truly want to rule. Meanwhile Faen and the children were smuggled out, with Kau giving her farewell.
there was quite a bit of dilema on what to do once these two faces each other. Thing is, Koil would say nothing. And Ariel would say nothing. Its be a painful dragged on scene where things truly happen in the background, unfolding with time. Just like the coup happened in the background. This is why we're transitioning away from that scene. Everyone there is tense, mourning or hoping Quain will put through somehow.


Kern literally says she doesn't want to rule in the Page-thread of 212. Her face on that page is most likely from the fact that her mother died in front of her and was killed by her Commander.


Image

So basically there's no plot device to that scene at all? Here I was thinking it was an event marking the beginning of an interesting and dynamic rivalry that would've shown more facets to their personalities and also would've driven Ariel to have more independence and personal agency as a character as well, rather than portraying them as unwilling participants of unfolding event's they don't even want to be the centre of to begin with. That's kinda lame. :(

Characters like Ariel and Koil should be driving the story with their actions not being taken for a ride while being little more than passive observers to events they don't shape or effect.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby SerNotSoBraveAlot » Fri May 05, 2017 5:02 pm

I have to agree that I've been hoping that the Hermionne turn out to be something more vicious than the Black Sun, more dangerous to stability than the Nids, and more of a challenge in direct combat. The drow largely still don't know what a Hermionne is or it's capabilities; only those who have regularly traveled the surface have an idea.

I want the Hermionne to come in force. By 52 it would be 3.5 years since a raiding party attacked Ys. I'm looking for a full scale war...



Image

Exactly, it would also be interesting to see how the Hermionne view the Drow. It'd be cool to see a scene with a captured Drow being interrogated by Hermionne who ask something along the lines of ''So who's your king?'' ''What's a king? :L'' the cultural interactions could be comical.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Mackus » Fri May 05, 2017 5:33 pm

SerNotSoBraveAlot wrote:Exactly, it would also be interesting to see how the Hermionne view the Drow. It'd be cool to see a scene with a captured Drow being interrogated by Hermionne who ask something along the lines of ''So who's your king?'' ''What's a king? :L'' the cultural interactions could be comical.

Something I've wondered. Seeing how drow have no male hereditary rulers, how would they call goblin king in their own language? Something like Ill'haress, but closest masculine equivalent? Or would they consider that too prestigious term for ruler of lesser race, and term them something akin to "chieftain"?
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Dalvyserran » Fri May 05, 2017 6:46 pm

SerNotSoBraveAlot wrote:Exactly, it would also be interesting to see how the Hermionne view the Drow. It'd be cool to see a scene with a captured Drow being interrogated by Hermionne who ask something along the lines of ''So who's your king?'' ''What's a king? :L'' the cultural interactions could be comical.


As far as I know, the hermionne see all drow as black devils from the mist, and try to indoctrinate captured halme city-states to believe the same thing.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Junglefowl26 » Fri May 05, 2017 7:01 pm

Mackus wrote:
SerNotSoBraveAlot wrote:Exactly, it would also be interesting to see how the Hermionne view the Drow. It'd be cool to see a scene with a captured Drow being interrogated by Hermionne who ask something along the lines of ''So who's your king?'' ''What's a king? :L'' the cultural interactions could be comical.

Something I've wondered. Seeing how drow have no male hereditary rulers, how would they call goblin king in their own language? Something like Ill'haress, but closest masculine equivalent? Or would they consider that too prestigious term for ruler of lesser race, and term them something akin to "chieftain"?

Well, we Ariel mentioned the Halme king when describing her rescue of Faen, and Chiri getting the lowdown on the Vanir realm had her hear that the Vanir are ruled by a king (technically, though there is a vacancy at the time) and understanding the concept.

So while the drow - or at least Chelian drow, Black Sun are known to have male leaders - lack kings, they interact with other races frequently enough that they probably have a word for the concept of a king.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Fri May 05, 2017 11:45 pm

Mmmm... I wonder if Kern is purposely showing the contrast berween Kel'noz's and Vaelia's reaction to Ariel's hugs.

Also, Vaelia's emotional support, strong approval and positive reinforcement.

Maybe that is what Ariel needs in order ro break through and gain the strengh and confidence she will need. She is too old to really change in a fundamental level, but she can mature above her weaknesses.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Zarannya » Sat May 06, 2017 2:13 am

1. That was before this happened http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11601 just look at the newborn rivalry on the very next page http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11602 whatever lack of ambition or indifference she felt before is most likely replaced by bitterness at this point, she might not want to be the leader but there's no way in hell she'll just hand over the clan now unless something changes her views on Ariel.

2. I think at this point she probably doesn't see Ariel as worthy of leadership or particularly competent or capable as a commander (she almost lost to Goblins after all) so I doubt she'd listen to her.

3. As I said regarding your 1st point Ariel is her political and personal rival now, neither particularly wanted to rule, it was just a matter of duty for them I think, but that's all changed now.


I'm not so sure that Koil would let the situation devolve into what she would probably consider to be a petty rivalry. She appeared to be more upset because her mother was killed by her adoptive mother, friend and commander, she'd just had to break up what she thought was a petty spat between Riviel and Ariel, and the grandkids had just been killed/attacked. Not to mention Laele'elle up and vanished...that's a lot for anyone to have to try to sort through, but in the end, she has no reason to pin everything on Ariel and act like Suube. She's always been shown to be more level-headed than that. I think she'll be more than happy to turn over command to Ariel, but she sure as hell won't do it til she's sure that Ariel is up to the task. Otherwise it's kind of like your peon employee suddenly becoming your boss. Plus, we don't know how the addition of Snadhya to the alliance down in Chel will affect things - any sorts of wierd things could happen when that crazy $*#&@ is involved, and if it hits the fan bad enough, the Sarghress will likely retreat just to get away from all the BS since they have a foothold upworld.

We'll see how the next chapter goes - hopefully after the timeskip, Ariel will have matured enough to let Koil step back and let her take the reins. I think it would more likely turn out to them working together out of necessity. And I really hope that Sang isn't involved in the whole anti-val thing - I like her as a character, along with Rosof. I may have missed something, but aside from the hatred of Sharens due to her torture/mutilation experience, I haven't seen anything that would mark her as a traitor willing to murder her commander's bloodline. Especially since if that was the true goal, they had Ariel with them long enough to assassinate her without anyone else stopping them. This whole Sarghress implosion has been pretty confusing :(
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby Seraphiel » Sun May 07, 2017 7:07 am

Some dude on a horse.

Image

*cue old spice jingle*
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 29

Postby El Bandito » Wed May 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Spring! Less hardships then, I hope.
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