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Chapter 51 : page 24

Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Smokehammer » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:02 pm

Hopefully Kenro encourages them to give those kids real bloody names.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Seraphina126 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:57 pm

Smokehammer wrote:Hopefully Kenro encourages them to give those kids real bloody names.


I agree with you on that. This comic has a tendency to portray small children and babies as mere objects to drool at from cuteness instead of as real living beings developing their own identity and awareness of the world, a view on children I absolutely do not agree with, but heh, it seems my opinion is rarely the popular one going around here. I especially feel this notion is strong here in this forum.

It's just baffling how those children STILL haven't gotten proper names yet. I mean, would Mel really want one of her sons to grow up with 'Pup' as his name? A name is part of your identity, and well, 'Pup' just doesn't feel right to me. It's so full of...ignorance and lack of interest in who and what these children really are.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Seraphiel » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:57 pm

Who's cuter?

Esuni..or...

Suna? *oops*
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Rukhron » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:25 am

Seraphina126 wrote:
Smokehammer wrote:Hopefully Kenro encourages them to give those kids real bloody names.


I agree with you on that. This comic has a tendency to portray small children and babies as mere objects to drool at from cuteness instead of as real living beings developing their own identity and awareness of the world, a view on children I absolutely do not agree with, but heh, it seems my opinion is rarely the popular one going around here. I especially feel this notion is strong here in this forum.

It's just baffling how those children STILL haven't gotten proper names yet. I mean, would Mel really want one of her sons to grow up with 'Pup' as his name? A name is part of your identity, and well, 'Pup' just doesn't feel right to me. It's so full of...ignorance and lack of interest in who and what these children really are.


I understand your feeling but I want to bring you attention to this book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidas_Secas
The sons of the family are called "older" and "younger". No, they don't have names. The family doesn't expect them to live long enough for it to matter, like many didn't and don't name them at all, because doing so and getting attached is a luxury the family can't afford. If and when they do survive they'll get a name. It's based on an existing place in our world, mind you, so it might be a bit brutal, but it may help you understand Quain a tiny bit better despite her being in a fantasy world.

The book is about more than a barren land. It is the setting and influence much of the history, but it's also about the barren economy, social-state and justice and how this make people emotionally barren.
In the case of Quain, she might be a clan leader but the Sarghress didn't control the principal sources of food either (that's one of the reasons for the alliance with the Sul after all) and this is a greater concern for the highest populated clan than any other too. But the most important thing for Quain is how she lived in a constant state of war. She lived in a constant state of flight or fight with an entire clan of people who depended of her stay (and whatever ideology she held when this started and was warped by centuries of such a living - plus numerous assassination attempts). After seeing multiple daughters being lost in so many different ways and the womb wound Quain was not only physically, but emotionally barren.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Smokehammer » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:51 am

Quain lost one kid to Tainting. One.

Ashie's lost so many kids & family over the years she's forgotten who all of them were yet Faen has a name. You can say, "oh but Ash didnt live in a constant state of war", ok Diva has lost countless descendants and several children over the years too, and still everybody has a name. Quain was just fricken unimaginative and lazy. With her ego she shouldve alteast taken up the Will Smith school of naming kids. *wee*
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Qwalnee » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:35 am

Seraphina126 wrote:It's just baffling how those children STILL haven't gotten proper names yet. I mean, would Mel really want one of her sons to grow up with 'Pup' as his name? A name is part of your identity, and well, 'Pup' just doesn't feel right to me. It's so full of...ignorance and lack of interest in who and what these children really are.

IRL in many cultures children names were only "nicknames", you received your "true name" when you reached adulthood (if you survived so long). This will fit well with brutal Drow way of life.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Mizu » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:54 am

Smokehammer wrote:Quain lost one kid to Tainting. One.

Ashie's lost so many kids & family over the years she's forgotten who all of them were yet Faen has a name. You can say, "oh but Ash didnt live in a constant state of war", ok Diva has lost countless descendants and several children over the years too, and still everybody has a name. Quain was just fricken unimaginative and lazy. With her ego she shouldve alteast taken up the Will Smith school of naming kids. *wee*



Pretty much, so far they are the only example of young children not really being given names. Even Shinae had a name before she got handed over to the Sharen and she wasn't even nobility. Quain is just awful at giving children names, its not some drow cultural defense mechanism against getting to attached to whelps that might not survive.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Sarah » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:46 am

Seraphina126 wrote:It's just baffling how those children STILL haven't gotten proper names yet. I mean, would Mel really want one of her sons to grow up with 'Pup' as his name? A name is part of your identity, and well, 'Pup' just doesn't feel right to me. It's so full of...ignorance and lack of interest in who and what these children really are.


I'd accept the 'Pup' name since it's kinda Sarghress-savvy, if a bit childish, but if they call that baby "Octobear" or something along those lines... XD I could...not take the character seriously, even older.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Basileus_Ioannis » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:11 am

Mizu wrote:
Smokehammer wrote:Quain lost one kid to Tainting. One.

Ashie's lost so many kids & family over the years she's forgotten who all of them were yet Faen has a name. You can say, "oh but Ash didnt live in a constant state of war", ok Diva has lost countless descendants and several children over the years too, and still everybody has a name. Quain was just fricken unimaginative and lazy. With her ego she shouldve alteast taken up the Will Smith school of naming kids. *wee*
Pretty much, so far they are the only example of young children not really being given names. Even Shinae had a name before she got handed over to the Sharen and she wasn't even nobility. Quain is just awful at giving children names, its not some drow cultural defense mechanism against getting to attached to whelps that might not survive.
Do you figure part of Quain's hang-up is the fact that Ariel, Vene, Pup, and as-yet-unnamed-Octobaby-BearBear-whatev were not from her own womb, but were forced upon her daughter Mel to birth, with the incumbent ill will and all that emotional baggage? Because not sure if Mel and Kel naming is canon, but Laele'aell was a fine name for such a badass daughter. Then after what happened to her, maybe Quain had developed a psychosis which resulted in "Meh, call her Ariel". Then with how that daughter turned out, plus the strife involving adoptive daughters Koil (political bullshit) and Sniffles (caught the red eye), Quain seemed to become more and more reluctant to name the ill-gotten babies. I think somebody mentioned that Ariel has 5 letters, Vene has 4 letters, Pup has 3, so maybe she was down to 2 letters for Octobaby and, like any other person pigeonholed into similar self-imposed rules, just couldn't find a viable 2-letter name besides "It" so she thought better of it and put it on the back burner until she could think clearly, and well we've all seen what happened after the Puppeting incident so the baby's name had been in "get around to It" limbo when Quain died (*inhale*) therefore the duty and responsibility to properly name Pup and the unappellated (hurf) baby is up to her named heir, therefore Ariel B)

Git in dere, girrrl! *rolleyes*
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Junglefowl26 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:54 am

About the Mel comment - I was less predicting some kind of freak out or conflict,* just drawing attention to the fact that is amusing that Faen is claiming the kids as her own even though she knows the mother is still out there, particularly since she was on good terms with her.**

*Though, come to think of it, it would probably would be an issue if Mel really wanted them to come live with Snad and Ariel really wanted to stay on the surface, or at least away from Snad.

**Faen managed to be on good terms with Quain and Mel - wonder how she pulled that off.


About the names: No need for elaborate theories guys, Quain just isn't good at coming up with names. Even Ariel admits this.

Frankly, the whole clan isn't so great at it, since the only nicknames they can come up with are *insert adjective* wolf :P

They probably help earn their keep too, as well as their food. They've only been "pests" to larger Fae (drow) because they saw Drow storage (often left unattended for long periods) as food sources and were driven off as such. With Vaelia likely working with them, offering and helping where she can, they in turn help her out. They probably keep real pests away!

Aw, like those helpful Russian house spirits, Domovoi. Or Brownies from Scotland. That makes a lot of sense.


http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=6497
and the 2 pages after it.

He could be the father. Looks Like he is a trader who gets knows drow.

Also relevant:
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=6485
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=6465 and the pages preceding it

Hopefully Kenro encourages them to give those kids real bloody names.

Ah, but what makes a name real after all? I mean, Wolf is a real name, as is Cat (well, short for something, but still)
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 24

Postby Mizu » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:17 am

Basileus_Ioannis wrote:
Mizu wrote:
Smokehammer wrote:Quain lost one kid to Tainting. One.

Ashie's lost so many kids & family over the years she's forgotten who all of them were yet Faen has a name. You can say, "oh but Ash didnt live in a constant state of war", ok Diva has lost countless descendants and several children over the years too, and still everybody has a name. Quain was just fricken unimaginative and lazy. With her ego she shouldve alteast taken up the Will Smith school of naming kids. *wee*
Pretty much, so far they are the only example of young children not really being given names. Even Shinae had a name before she got handed over to the Sharen and she wasn't even nobility. Quain is just awful at giving children names, its not some drow cultural defense mechanism against getting to attached to whelps that might not survive.
Do you figure part of Quain's hang-up is the fact that Ariel, Vene, Pup, and as-yet-unnamed-Octobaby-BearBear-whatev were not from her own womb, but were forced upon her daughter Mel to birth, with the incumbent ill will and all that emotional baggage? Because not sure if Mel and Kel naming is canon, but Laele'aell was a fine name for such a badass daughter. Then after what happened to her, maybe Quain had developed a psychosis which resulted in "Meh, call her Ariel". Then with how that daughter turned out, plus the strife involving adoptive daughters Koil (political bullshit) and Sniffles (caught the red eye), Quain seemed to become more and more reluctant to name the ill-gotten babies. I think somebody mentioned that Ariel has 5 letters, Vene has 4 letters, Pup has 3, so maybe she was down to 2 letters for Octobaby and, like any other person pigeonholed into similar self-imposed rules, just couldn't find a viable 2-letter name besides "It" so she thought better of it and put it on the back burner until she could think clearly, and well we've all seen what happened after the Puppeting incident so the baby's name had been in "get around to It" limbo when Quain died (*inhale*) therefore the duty and responsibility to properly name Pup and the unappellated (hurf) baby is up to her named heir, therefore Ariel B)

Git in dere, girrrl! *rolleyes*



Hmm, 'an' (pronounced anne)? Probably cheating to assert the name is pronounced completely differently from its written form but people do that all the time.


Ah, but what makes a name real after all? I mean, Wolf is a real name, as is Cat (well, short for something, but still)


Yeah, but pup has a problem in that it denotes youth and inexperience. Quain might as well have named the poor kid 'newb' or Green'horn or virgin.
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