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Chapter 51 : page 18

Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby gd1 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:42 pm

Seraphiel wrote:In case you were wondering, this is how it sounds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mVjX1G_7wI

:c


Couldn't it sound like this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xU1hYgGcosA
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Najah » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:16 pm

This is such a reality check on how far Ariel has come from being a child under someone-elses care, to actually having children of her own to rear. She will for-sure take notes from Syphille on what NOT to do.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Black Knight LeFreux » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:08 pm

Najah wrote:This is such a reality check on how far Ariel has come from being a child under someone-elses care, to actually having children of her own to rear. She will for-sure take notes from Syphille on what NOT to do.


And yet there have been many discussions on how, even if you try your best not to, you end up repeating the abuse you suffered from your parents on your children.

At least Ariel had a good alternative parent, Vaelia.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Seraphina126 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:26 pm

NyoNyo wrote:Pup is too adorable in winter gear... I just want to pat his lil head and give him a cookie, poor lamb. I think Ariel's gonna be a good mother/sister/guardian to him at least. She was the quiet, shy child once too, after all. She's still got bits of that child in her but I think she's genuinely maturing now, especially now that Quain's dead.


How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat) a sign of her maturing, if I may ask? Instead of actually sitting down and taking her role as heir seriously? Instead of discussing her responsibilities with people she knows she can rely on, such as Kel'noz? This page, to me, rather shows the opposite. It shows to me a woman who's still a child inside, shouting out her fears and frustrations, not knowing what to do. Hopefully she won't raise the kids to be as ignorant and naive as she herself is.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby AnoP » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:29 pm

Seraphina126 wrote:How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat)

Okay see , there's movies, and various cartoons, and then there's real life. Remember, if you see something happening repeatedly in fiction, but never in a documentary, it probably happens repeatedly because it's a popular writing convention.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby NyoNyo » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:39 pm

Seraphina126 wrote:
NyoNyo wrote:Pup is too adorable in winter gear... I just want to pat his lil head and give him a cookie, poor lamb. I think Ariel's gonna be a good mother/sister/guardian to him at least. She was the quiet, shy child once too, after all. She's still got bits of that child in her but I think she's genuinely maturing now, especially now that Quain's dead.


How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat) a sign of her maturing, if I may ask? Instead of actually sitting down and taking her role as heir seriously? Instead of discussing her responsibilities with people she knows she can rely on, such as Kel'noz? This page, to me, rather shows the opposite. It shows to me a woman who's still a child inside, shouting out her fears and frustrations, not knowing what to do. Hopefully she won't raise the kids to be as ignorant and naive as she herself is.


Because it's emotionally healthier for her to scream out her frustrations at this point while she still can, instead of bottling them up and potentially taking it out on her clan. If she lets off steam now, she'll be in a better mindset going in to become a leader than internalising her grief in a way that could ruin her. Granted, screaming out your frustrations isn't a cure-all - see Shinae as an example - but with that and the support network Ariel has now, she'll probably make it out better than most.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Hellsion » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:29 pm

Seraphina126 wrote:
How is her shouting down a hill a sign of her maturing, if I may ask? blah blah blah not gown up enough if you ask me blah blah blah


honestly that would be ooc for Ariel, that sounds like something Quain or Kelnoz would do.

NyoNyo wrote:
Because it's emotionally healthier for her to scream out her frustrations at this point while she still can, instead of bottling them up and potentially taking it out on her clan. If she lets off steam now, she'll be in a better mindset going in to become a leader than internalising her grief in a way that could ruin her. Granted, screaming out your frustrations isn't a cure-all - see Shinae as an example - but with that and the support network Ariel has now, she'll probably make it out better than most.


yes. also did you know its healthy and normal to cry or scream when you almost died and a couple of beloved family members just died AND half if not all your clan has turned aganst you AND youre now official ruler of that clan and you are probably just a figure head even if your puppetmaster means well and honestly nothing has worked out for you.

yeah I'd scream too.

#LetArielbeAriel2kforever
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Kardwill » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:57 am

Seraphina126 wrote:How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat) a sign of her maturing, if I may ask?


Did you ever scream at the top of your lungs, after someone dear to you just died? Get to some quiet place outdoors, then scream incoherently, scream until your throat is raw and your voice croaks? Scream out your frustration, your sadness, your anger at the world?

I don't know if screams and tears are proof of maturity or such nonsense, but I do know it's both normal, and good. Helps me accept the situation, and find peace. Burying myself in responsibilities and bottling it up does not, it's just a way to flee reality. Sure, Ariel does have some serious responsibilities now, so she will have to get to it soon, but she can afford a few moments of "me-time" to vent her grief and her frustration.

I did both the "scream and sob" and the "continue working as if nothing happened" approaches at different times in my life, and I know which left me sane, and which made me a barely functional wreck for weeks...
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Pitdragon » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:56 am

Meh Shinae impression, needs to come from a deep seated hatred and loathing, also lacks swearing and grump face. 4/10 Get gud, Ariel!

Next we have Pup. Good feeling about his attempt.

:P
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Amerlie » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:17 pm

Kardwill wrote:
Seraphina126 wrote:How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat) a sign of her maturing, if I may ask?


Did you ever scream at the top of your lungs, after someone dear to you just died? Get to some quiet place outdoors, then scream incoherently, scream until your throat is raw and your voice croaks? Scream out your frustration, your sadness, your anger at the world?

I don't know if screams and tears are proof of maturity or such nonsense, but I do know it's both normal, and good. Helps me accept the situation, and find peace. Burying myself in responsibilities and bottling it up does not, it's just a way to flee reality. Sure, Ariel does have some serious responsibilities now, so she will have to get to it soon, but she can afford a few moments of "me-time" to vent her grief and her frustration.

I did both the "scream and sob" and the "continue working as if nothing happened" approaches at different times in my life, and I know which left me sane, and which made me a barely functional wreck for weeks...


You are absolutely right, Kardwill. Well said!
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Seraphiel » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:03 pm

gd1 wrote:
Seraphiel wrote:In case you were wondering, this is how it sounds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mVjX1G_7wI

:c


Couldn't it sound like this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xU1hYgGcosA


Maybe this ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77kj9xhwrA4
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Seraphina126 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:39 pm

AnoP wrote:
Seraphina126 wrote:How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat)

Okay see , there's movies, and various cartoons, and then there's real life. Remember, if you see something happening repeatedly in fiction, but never in a documentary, it probably happens repeatedly because it's a popular writing convention.


Ok, you're smart, that much has been shown. Thanks for rubbing it in my face.

I still think Ariel shouting like that isn't any sign of how she's maturing or how it is good for releasing stress.

I've had several people in my family die over the past few years. I never had to shout like a primal monkey at the top of my lungs to be able to process their loss in my life. Nor did I 'bottle up any emotions', as was suggested here. Maybe I just process these emotions differently from others, instead of making me seem like some sociopath, like some seem to imply here? I didn't end up becoming a worse or less empathic person because of it for as far as I know.

Anyway, it seems people will defend Ariel's actions no matter what because she's the protagonist and thus she can't do anything wrong, like, ever. Fine, keep on cheering for her. I just think she was written as a much better and more realistic character in the previous arc when she was younger, that's all. Feel free to disagree with that.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Lee'yane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:49 pm

So I've been too busy to comment lately with classes but I just happen to notice that something from my psychology classes(especially lifespan psychology) is relevant in here.

There are different types of maturity, physical and intellectual maturities are what most people already know about but there's also emotional and psychological maturities. Emotional maturity is knowing how to responsibly handle your emotions and emotional responses, and psychological maturity is knowing how to regulate your psychological well-being.

So...
Kardwill wrote:...
I don't know if screams and tears are proof of maturity or such nonsense, but I do know it's both normal, and good.
...

If done when you can afford to and with an appropriate outlet, it is mature to scream and cry--emotionally mature that is. And to do so to keep from losing your mind is psychologically mature.

And as for...
Seraphina126 wrote:How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat) a sign of her maturing, if I may ask? Instead of actually sitting down and taking her role as heir seriously? Instead of discussing her responsibilities with people she knows she can rely on, such as Kel'noz? This page, to me, rather shows the opposite. It shows to me a woman who's still a child inside, shouting out her fears and frustrations, not knowing what to do. Hopefully she won't raise the kids to be as ignorant and naive as she herself is.

To answer your first question, see above about different kinds of maturities. To answer your add-on questions, if she did that while ignoring her psychological and emotional well-being​, she'd be endangering her ability to think logically and reasonably--especially as a leader. In other words, she'd be endangering her clan, and anything else she's responsible for, by endangering her means to reason and her ability to properly moderate and respond to anything that might happen. To ignore that part of oneself is detrimental to thinking responsibly.

For example, what you said about what shows the opposite? Someone who doesn't express their fears and frustrations at all, or maybe not even have them? That's not mature, especially not in this context.

At best, its naive to think that there isn't anything to be afraid or frustrated about and that someone else would know what to do. If such problems actually had definitive answers and absolute solutions there wouldn't be a conflict in the first place; Quain would not be dead, everything wouldn't be falling apart in Chel, etc.

At worst, it's delusional. Anyone in Ariel's position here who doesn't feel afraid, frustrated, and/or even realize they don't know what to do is straight up delusional.

To realize that no one really knows what to do in this mess, to realize it's likely only going to get worse (so she should scream now while she can), and to do what you have to to stay sane is showing a remarkable amount of maturity in Ariel. I daresay it's even more than some of the other Illharess' we've seen. (I would say most, but we're starting to see that they've just been hiding that for bluffing purposes)
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby Lee'yane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Seraphina126 wrote:
AnoP wrote:
Seraphina126 wrote:How is her shouting down a hill (and possibly causing an avalanche - the ignorant twat)

Okay see , there's movies, and various cartoons, and then there's real life. Remember, if you see something happening repeatedly in fiction, but never in a documentary, it probably happens repeatedly because it's a popular writing convention.


Ok, you're smart, that much has been shown. Thanks for rubbing it in my face.

I still think Ariel shouting like that isn't any sign of how she's maturing or how it is good for releasing stress.

I've had several people in my family die over the past few years. I never had to shout like a primal monkey at the top of my lungs to be able to process their loss in my life. Nor did I 'bottle up any emotions', as was suggested here. Maybe I just process these emotions differently from others, instead of making me seem like some sociopath, like some seem to imply here? I didn't end up becoming a worse or less empathic person because of it for as far as I know.

Anyway, it seems people will defend Ariel's actions no matter what because she's the protagonist and thus she can't do anything wrong, like, ever. Fine, keep on cheering for her. I just think she was written as a much better and more realistic character in the previous arc when she was younger, that's all. Feel free to disagree with that.

Not needing to scream like this and not doing so when you do are two completely different things.

Some people have more obvious or direct emotional responses in general, it's knowing when and how it's best to express them that's emotional maturity.

To point that out isn't defending Ariel, it's defending facts.

Having said that... and at the risk of sounding too personally psychoanalytic​al...

Are you sure you're okay? I know it's difficult to convey tone or to decipher someone else's tone from text for both sides of us, but alot of what you've said (taking corrections personally, general hostile remarks, thinking anyone implied sociopathy, or that pointing out such facts are defending a character rather than stating facts) is very defensive. And I know you said you didn't bottle things up, and it could just be a coincidence, but extreme defensiveness and somewhat hostile defensiveness is a sign of emotional repression.

I'm not even trying to be insulting. There's nothing wrong with having problems, and not dealing with them well. That's why it's called emotional maturity and not emotional personality or even a disorder. Because you grow into it and learn it--sometimes by example, and sometimes by trial-and-error.
Last edited by Lee'yane on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 18

Postby rediius » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:14 pm

I just saw this, but for now, Zareh's Wiki link takes you to her bio page which reads :

Zareh is a character that first appeared in the comic before a concept art was made. What do ya want from me? This was supposed to be a workpage. -Thrair

It's definitely one of those funny background events.
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