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Chapter 51 : page 15

Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Gunbird » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:58 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:But I've always said that it doesn't make sense, every time I mention it :S


And we herd you ever time..............I think.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Dalvyserran » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:28 pm

Gunbird wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:But I've always said that it doesn't make sense, every time I mention it :S


And we herd you ever time..............I think.


Oh, I'm sure, but I'm saying that there shouldn't be a reason why someone can't speak against the idea.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Seraphina126 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:10 pm

Tempestfury wrote:.... Okay. I admit, I was NOT expecting this to happen. At all.

... And people were cringing two pages back?


Trust me, I find this page even more cringe-worthy. I mean, what does Kern want to achieve with these pages? Use them as fodder just so some more gangbang/orgy/incest stuff can be added to DayDream for people to pay for?

Just the mere thought of having Ash fucking the son of her lover as if it were nothing...shows how much she truly cared for Quain and her kids.

Bills must be paid, I guess. It's just sad that it always comes down to having your own characters whoring themselves out for some perverse fantasies of readers who can't seem to get their fix somewhere else. It's becoming a trend in most webcomics I've been reading for a long time, especially since the introduction of Patreon and such. I'd never do that as a writer or as an artist, but I guess that's just me.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby ValRhiannon » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:48 pm

Seraphina126 wrote:
Tempestfury wrote:.... Okay. I admit, I was NOT expecting this to happen. At all.

... And people were cringing two pages back?


Trust me, I find this page even more cringe-worthy. I mean, what does Kern want to achieve with these pages? Use them as fodder just so some more gangbang/orgy/incest stuff can be added to DayDream for people to pay for?

Just the mere thought of having Ash fucking the son of her lover as if it were nothing...shows how much she truly cared for Quain and her kids.

Bills must be paid, I guess. It's just sad that it always comes down to having your own characters whoring themselves out for some perverse fantasies of readers who can't seem to get their fix somewhere else. It's becoming a trend in most webcomics I've been reading for a long time, especially since the introduction of Patreon and such. I'd never do that as a writer or as an artist, but I guess that's just me.


I really don't think this is Daydream fodder or anything like that. There are many pre-established cultural practices that pretty much made this a pre-determined outcome (the proposal that is). I don't think Kel will accept until he gets an agreement on the alliance from her. She hasn't pledged her support yet. It is interesting that Kel apparently has pretty much been the political ho for the Sarghress though. That was a feudal dynamic I hadn't fully grasped until now. No wonder he has always been so exasperated with Mel's previous unwillingness to sleep with people for the clan, he's always done it. Granted carrying babies is a different experience but it definitely makes his exasperation even more palpable.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:17 pm

As far as we know, Kel'noz the "political ho" belongs to fanfiction and Daydream only. We know he is friends with Ini'riira and Salan'dara, but we know nothing of him being used as a sexual bargaining chip.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Pariel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:47 pm

Oh ffs Ash.

After this i half expect her to bang Nau.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby gd1 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:16 pm

Pariel wrote:Oh ffs Ash.

After this i half expect her to bang Nau.


Gentlemen, there's a solution here you're not seeing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EStQGV54ZNc
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby sunhawk » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:55 pm

about Kern.

what is he these days, besides the leader of the Machikie Sarghress?

before the retcon that turned most drow into Benders. Kel was the sorcerer. so what is he now?
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby suntiger745 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:22 am

Now this is an interesting position.
Normally the female would be the one with the political/social power, and the male would only be as powerful as the woman he'd slept with would allow (though some concubines were quite influential, never underestimate soft power).
But with the Sullissin'rune so diminished by the fighting and the infiltration of traitors, and Kel'noz being a Sarghress, he's in the position of actually having more power than an Ill'haress.

Kel'noz have been mentioned as having many children, though most are part of the clan (or house) of their mother, and while I think he did like and respect most of his partners it must have been frustrating to always be counted as a "secondary" person.
No surprise that the male teachers of Orthorbbae had an agenda to work towards equality, and with the Sarghress being what they are Kel'noz had a better chance than most to enact some real change.

If it had been any other Ill'haress than Ash'waren, I'd say it would be better to refuse the offer and push the negotiations from a position of strength. But since it is Ash'waren, he might actually be in a better position if he does go to bed with her.
To me it always seemed that Ash'waren, aside from enjoying sex for itself, used it to take the measure of a person through it. It's hard to lie to an empath just talking to them and I think it would be nigh impossible in bed. It's much harder to lie with your body than with your voice.

The question is what Kel'noz would gain from an alliance with Ash'waren at this point. The fallout from the war has left the Sullissin'rune much weakened. Ash'waren's powers as an empath is probably second to none, but she's just one person.
It's quite possible that she has connections to pretty much every clan still in power in Chel though. The Sullissin parties before the (most recent) war were well attended as far as I know, and after being forbidden to raise any armed forces of any significance after being defeated by the Val'Sahren way back when, culture and information was what they focused on. Those connections could still be valuable as the power dynamics in Chel, and even the Underworld as a whole, are in flux.
It's quite possible Chel won't be the center of power for quite some time depending on what happens (in which case I think Nuqrah'shareh would take over as the greatest and most influential underworld city. Machike might grow from a colony/surface passage outpost to a proper city as well).

Still, even if it turns out the Jaal'darya, Nal'sarkoth and possibly the Ill'hardro (with Nega in Nuqrah'shareh and a representative in Chel) will become the new powers within Chel, Ash'waren might have enough contacts (or know enough dirty secrets) within those clans to make favorable connections and negotiations, especially if the Sarghress can push to make the commoners more powerful via Quain'tana as a symbol and/or her ideals as a cause/idea to rally behind.
Have something more akin to a parliament in Chel maybe, with the commoners having actual representation, and Ash'waren as the mediator, reassuring her Val acquaintances that she can mitigate any too radical notions through her contacts within the Sarghress (though I also wonder if she would want to play that role).

As well, more immediately, hearing that Ash'waren is still alive might serve as a rallying beacon for those Sullissin still alive.
Just have to sort out the loyalists from the traitors from the merely war-tired or disillusioned ones.

Edit: @ sunhawk Kel'noz is a high arts user with an earth sorcery as far as I know.
That is, his sorcery/natural talent is for earth and beyond that he has studied the use of other sorceries that he doesn't have a direct affinity for, mainly but not exclusively via foci attuned to the respective element.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Seraphiel » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:34 am

Seventy-three men sailed up
From the Che'el'Sussoloth cave
Rolled off of their ship
And here's what they had to say.
"We're callin' everyone to ride along
To another shore,
We can laugh our lives away
and be free once more."
But no one heard them callin',
No one came at all,
'Cause they were too busy watchin'
Those old raindrops fall.
As a storm was blowin'
Out on the peaceful sea,
Seventy-three men sailed off
To history.
Ride, Kel'Noz ride
Upon your mystery ship,
Be amazed at the friends
You have here on your trip.
Ride Kel'Noz ride
Upon your mystery ship,
On your way to a world
That others might have missed.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Junglefowl26 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:48 am

Hoh boy, lot of discussion this time.

Let's see

- I think Ash has a point here. What does her backing mean? The anti-Vals won't care. Even with people who back Ariel, what does Ash mean to them? What allies does Ash have among clan leaders beyond Quain? Sure, she used to have a lot of political influence due to all the connections she made partying (plus blackmail?) but now - well she has been the major backer of anti-Val rebellion, and she can't count on her kid's connections due to the traitors in her clan. Come to think of it, she doesn't even seem to have much influence in her own clan anymore....

Frankly, her support might hurt more than help at this point.

Hope this means Kel isn't too stuck in the past to recognize the changing political realities of the situation.....


She's very casually manipulative, and I'm not even sure if she thinks about it anymore. I think she's legitimately interested in Kel'noz, now. Not for anything deep, but because she's reeling from losing Quain and rebounding hard.

Yeah, that is something that stood out to me. Just, talking so longingly about Quain's fire, then discussing Kel's.....well, for one I guess it means she is attracted to passionate people with strong goals, but it does seem kind of...unhealthy replace-y...? Not sure how to say it.

Also thinking about it....Kel is probably the most like his mother isn't he, though less emotional and more calculating. Or does that make him the least, and Mel is more similar even though her passions lead her in the opposite direction? Bah, forget I said anything.

riflow wrote:Come on ashie don't start banging quains kids too. :'D next she'll be after one of the grandkids when they're grown up.

Ariel is almost grown up already.....

IkaikaKekai wrote:I could think of a much sleazier threeway to renew the alliance. And I expect to see it in daydream soonish. Now I just thought of a 4 way that's not quite as sleazy but it could be depending how heavy the Empaths make it.

Do i even want to know?

Ash: "We can share."
Ariel: "Halp."

XD

I can imagine Faen in this scenario being all *sweatdrop*

[quote=Smokehammer"]Its actually disturbing - the lack of F**ks given everywhere about Quain's death.

Presumably her kids hated her because, well... read the comic.
Presumably her friends were sick of her pig-headed irrational bullshit.
Presumably her Clan hated her because they were betrayed by her sort of going Val on them.
Presumably Ashie's just hot and cold with everyone because she's so old she wouldnt recognize a real emotion if it ran up and bit her in her fat ass.
Presumably Ariel's still on the "Whut, no!" Moses train of shock.

And presumably most of her "black glob friend demons" (DTs Fans) are expecting her to suddenly appear alive and well two chapters from now because she kicked Charon in the crotch, drank all the water in the Stix then hopped on Cerberus and rode him until he dropped dead back to life. [/quote]
True.

Well, I dunno, Ash did seem to have geniune emotions last page, but yeah it seems a giant complex mess with her so maybe even she doesn't know how she feels.

But still - she lived a lonely life dedicated only to a cause, so I suppose it makes sense she died a lonely death, with people mostly thinking how it will affect the cause.
To quote Zathras: "At least there is symmetry."

I'd pay real money to see that happen. *wee*

Glad you liked it!

Dalvyserran wrote:Ashie makes more sense---they know each other somewhat, and kel can keep his clan together that way. Waes'soloth and Kel... Two completely unrelated characters with nothing to gain

Don't forget ideological opposites!
Relatedly, Belds are dying at least in part because of their high standards for the bloodlines of their mates, and Kel is the son of a mercenary, and not even one that was born Val.

I am surprised Weas didn't flay Ischa for suggesting it.

*hmmm* Wonder if Ischa is in the colony because Waes banished her there for suggesting it over and over. :V

[quote=riflow].....Also makes me curious if any other illharesses have screwed each other (or otherwise offered the other their mates). :'D perhaps a thought for a rainy day.[/quote]
I think it has been said that Ash and Zala would go looking for mate together...maybe they got involved in a three way at some point? I wouldn't put it past them, as long as Zala is bi.

sunhawk wrote:do you think that sometime in the future there will be a Ariel vs Mel battle over the Sarghress clan?

Nope.

I mean, Mel doesn't want it, no one in the Sarghress wants it, clans matter less now anyway, Mel super wants her children a whole lot....I I....I mean I just...really hard to imagine such a thing happening.

As far as we know, Kel'noz the "political ho" belongs to fanfiction and Daydream only. We know he is friends with Ini'riira and Salan'dara, but we know nothing of him being used as a sexual bargaining chip.

Hmmm...I could have sworn it said somewhere he has had a lot of kids, but come to think of it, I am not sure where. The only one we know of is Sarnel's mother (though I should totally bring his space age daughter over to canon heh heh....)

suntiger wrote:Edit: @ sunhawk Kel'noz is a high arts user with an earth sorcery as far as I know.
That is, his sorcery/natural talent is for earth and beyond that he has studied the use of other sorceries that he doesn't have a direct affinity for, mainly but not exclusively via foci attuned to the respective element.

I thought his natural affinity was light...hmm....once again, I am not sure where that is from though.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby PSadlon » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:01 am

I'll admit if she gave me that look, empathic powers or no, most of me would probably be putty in her hands.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby alkaizer87 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:01 am

Lordpanther14 wrote:
SzordrinZaphresz wrote:And is one of her eyes naturally near solid red, or is she somehow half-tainted?


Ashe'waren just happens to have a genetic mutation called heterochromia where one eye is a different shade then the other.

Weird sense of Deja Vu here....I could've sworn some where something like this occurred where someone commented on her strange color mixture and The same person replied with a similar response, and withing 1 or more posts before the 'We'll Bang, Ok' meme thing.....

EDIT: Anyways...Kel...you really going to need a lot of stamina for this 'negotiation'. bow-chika-wow-wow.-Alkaizer87/The Megaperv.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Kardwill » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:05 am

Junglefowl26 wrote: Just, talking so longingly about Quain's fire, then discussing Kel's.....well, for one I guess it means she is attracted to passionate people with strong goals, but it does seem kind of...unhealthy replace-y...? Not sure how to say it.


She give me a... parasitic vibe in this comic. She's drawn to people with "fire", with strong willpower and ideals. Like she... feeds on their emotions, dunno. Or has grown dependant on them. On this page, first she looks suicidal (I get the impression she was about to jump, or at least dramatically implying that she considered it), then Kel pulls her from the cliff, she notices him, and looks like a junkie that just found her new fix.

She's creepy, but she doesn't look manipulative. More like desperate. Someone who lost the thing that kept her going and is grasping at anything she can reach.
An empathy addict?

Come to think of it, most powerful empath we saw in the comic as first line characters (the trio, Ash, Faen, even Chiri) look kinda insane, or at least pay an heavy psychological price for their power, don't they? Living in others people moods can't be healthy.
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Re: Chapter 51 : page 15

Postby Hecatonchire » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:31 pm

Kardwill wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote: Just, talking so longingly about Quain's fire, then discussing Kel's.....well, for one I guess it means she is attracted to passionate people with strong goals, but it does seem kind of...unhealthy replace-y...? Not sure how to say it.


She give me a... parasitic vibe in this comic. She's drawn to people with "fire", with strong willpower and ideals. Like she... feeds on their emotions, dunno. Or has grown dependant on them. On this page, first she looks suicidal (I get the impression she was about to jump, or at least dramatically implying that she considered it), then Kel pulls her from the cliff, she notices him, and looks like a junkie that just found her new fix.

She's creepy, but she doesn't look manipulative. More like desperate. Someone who lost the thing that kept her going and is grasping at anything she can reach.
An empathy addict?

Come to think of it, most powerful empath we saw in the comic as first line characters (the trio, Ash, Faen, even Chiri) look kinda insane, or at least pay an heavy psychological price for their power, don't they? Living in others people moods can't be healthy.



I think a lot of it is that Ash is so old and seen so much, she's witnessed civilizations rise and fall and seeing that same inevitable decline once more probably takes a big toll psychologically. So I think the empath aspect is completely legitimate, especially considering Faen and how she's relied on various emotional rocks in her life (Chrys at first, then transferred to Ariel) and looking back we can see a similar kind of relationship between Ash and Diva and then Ash and Quain.

So I think its more that seeing someone with drive and "fire" that the (relative) youth have hope and dreams even in the face of great setbacks, inspires her. She's not a dreamer herself after seeing so many go down in flames, but she can believe in the dreams of others like Quain and now Kel.

That's one of the greatest strengths of Drowtales is that one can see the myriad facets of a character's personality; books or television are successful if they manage to define a few aspects of the character well, but with Drowtales, Kern shows us so many little nuances that have built over time that you feel like someone could write and entire psychological profile for every major character and many minor ones and I think Ash'waren is an amazing example of that subtle storytelling here.
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