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Chapter 46 : Page 54

Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Hellsion » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:11 pm

Obsidian Agent wrote:Are you really the kind of person who enjoys emo-ness, yiff, torture, mutilation, and religious insanity? Because that's what Jack's like. It's basically Berserk minus Awesome plus Furries.

you forgot bad (yet consistant) art

Obsidian Agent wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:
Obsidian Agent wrote:You just HAD to link to Jack, didn't you?

*starts chugging the Brain Bleach*

Really? *interested*


Enjoy your nightmares!

I stopped reading it SIX years ago (six months after I found it) because it made me consider cutting myself. and then I was like NOPE *delete bookmark* *hmmm*

even after all this time I remember it.
Last edited by Hellsion on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Dalvyserran » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:12 pm

Obsidian Agent wrote:Are you really the kind of person who enjoys emo-ness, yiff, torture, mutilation, and religious insanity? Because that's what Jack's like. It's basically Berserk minus Awesome plus Furries.


Well I have been reading a lot of depressive manga/comics with adult themes lately, though some not always violent! If it beats Crossed then it's a winner in my book for most disturbing thing ever
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Obsidian Agent » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:13 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:
Obsidian Agent wrote:Are you really the kind of person who enjoys emo-ness, yiff, torture, mutilation, and religious insanity? Because that's what Jack's like. It's basically Berserk minus Awesome plus Furries.


Well I have been reading a lot of depressive manga with adult themes lately, though some not always violent! If it beats Crossed then it's a winner in my book.


Considering one of the main characters in Jack (going by memory here) is the ghost of an aborted fetus...
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby X_SapphireDream_X » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:15 pm

Well, I'm not gonna keep arguing when people automatically start assuming I'm some kind of puritan reactionary person who's been living under a stone even though I have stated various times I have no problem with sex at all. Also, if that's the reaction I get for just a bit of criticism, it says a lot about the mindset some people here have. I indeed agree that people have different tastes, and perhaps the story's just not to my taste right now. I just wanted to state that those kinds of sex-related jokes, right now, are implemented at the wrong time at the wrong place in the comic, and it's breaking immersion and story build-up. That's all.

Anyway, those are my two cents. I'll probably just skip the next couple of pages until things get interesting again. :]

Have a good day, everyone!
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Kaiser » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:16 pm

Let me summarize.

It's not the dirty humor in and of itself that is bad. How it's handled is. We've already had the Nau-Ariel misunderstanding, the Kiel-Fame distraction attempt, Kuso being Kuso, and now this. On this very page, we have an emotionally distraught Erelice promising to start some serious shit creating a rather potent case of mood whiplash when we get to the punchline. Not to mention the humor coupled with Ariel philosophizing clashes with itself. We had the Kavahini tease several pages ago which got everyone excited only for nothing to happen with that since.

And the reason for darkness-induced apathy stems mostly from our characters getting less sympathetic, which them acting like caricatures of themselves doesn't help.

While personally, I feel the joke on this page went a bit too far, my problem lies not with the content but with how clumsily said content is handled and spliced into the story. Thus, it's also not just a case of personal preferences but, in my opinion, of the actual storytelling being bad.
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Obsidian Agent » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:16 pm

Hellsion wrote:
Obsidian Agent wrote:Are you really the kind of person who enjoys emo-ness, yiff, torture, mutilation, and religious insanity? Because that's what Jack's like. It's basically Berserk minus Awesome plus Furries.

you forgot bad (yet consistant) art


True, can't forget that. Although, considering I've read "Sonichu", it doesn't look QUITE as bad in comparison.

Hellsion wrote:
I stopped reading it SIX years ago (six months after I found it) because it made me consider cutting myself. and then I was like NOPE *delete bookmark* *hmmm*

even after all this time I remember it.


I only popped in a look after being linked there from TV Tropes back in 2010.... and I still remember it. I'll never get rid of the mental scars.
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Hellsion » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:20 pm

X_SapphireDream_X wrote:I'll probably just skip the next couple of pages until things get interesting again. :]

THE OWLIES ARE COMING!

they have the same schedule as Halflife 3 so it should be soon.
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Shrg » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:25 pm

Hellsion wrote:
X_SapphireDream_X wrote:I'll probably just skip the next couple of pages until things get interesting again. :]

THE OWLIES ARE COMING!

they have the same schedule as Halflife 3 so it should be soon.

Hey they got distracted by some yummy looking mice on the way. YOu cant fight on an empty stomache!
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Leopardwerecat » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:35 pm

Kaiser wrote:Let me summarize.

It's not the dirty humor in and of itself that is bad. How it's handled is. We've already had the Nau-Ariel misunderstanding, the Kiel-Fame distraction attempt, Kuso being Kuso, and now this. On this very page, we have an emotionally distraught Erelice promising to start some serious shit creating a rather potent case of mood whiplash when we get to the punchline. Not to mention the humor coupled with Ariel philosophizing clashes with itself. We had the Kavahini tease several pages ago which got everyone excited only for nothing to happen with that since.

And the reason for darkness-induced apathy stems mostly from our characters getting less sympathetic, which them acting like caricatures of themselves doesn't help.

While personally, I feel the joke on this page went a bit too far, my problem lies not with the content but with how clumsily said content is handled and spliced into the stor. Thus, it's also not just a case of personal preferences but, in my opinion, of the actual storytelling being bad.


^ This is how I feel. I don't mind lightheartedness in the comic (if DT was grimdark all the time I wouldn't bother with it) but the constant mood whiplash is getting tiresome.

That and I personally think the romantic subplots are distracting the actual plot progression way too much but that's just my thought on it and obviously other people don't mind
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Naur » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:44 pm

Kaiser wrote:While personally, I feel the joke on this page went a bit too far, my problem lies not with the content but with how clumsily said content is handled and spliced into the stor. Thus, it's also not just a case of personal preferences but, in my opinion, of the actual storytelling being bad.


No, how you are phrasing it, it's sounding more like something else. Rather, it seems to be problems with one aspect of the storytelling, a relevant concern mind you as you do bring up some good points. Structure, however, is only a small part of a story, and does not on its own make the quality of the storytelling bad. Take the Lord of the Rings trilogy (books, not the movies). By literary standards, the structure of that story is horrid, yet the story itself is considered classic and beloved by many. It's not dependent on the structuring of the narrative to deliver its intended effect. Now you have a webcomic series, something that by its nature will have its pacing determined by the speed of its updates (which in this case is surprisingly quick), and, unlike a classic narrative, more then likely does not undergo a large amount of the usual meticulous process for refining a story; rough drafts, workshopping, ect. Then, take into account the fact that this comic has been going on for a very long time, by web comic standards. So what we have is a very small sampling on a long running series subjected to the bare minimum of the narrative editing process, and by this you are claiming the storytelling is bad? While you may bring up good points, it still sounds more like a personal taste issue when it comes to the narrative as a whole (this with regards to the criticism of the post time skip story, your points about the emotional whiplash are sound, my point is that this small set of slip ups does not justify passing judgement on the arc as a whole.)
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Naur » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:47 pm

Shrg wrote:
Hellsion wrote:
X_SapphireDream_X wrote:I'll probably just skip the next couple of pages until things get interesting again. :]

THE OWLIES ARE COMING!

they have the same schedule as Halflife 3 so it should be soon.

Hey they got distracted by some yummy looking mice on the way. YOu cant fight on an empty stomache!


Wait, wait, I just got it.....this whole thing is one big Game of Thrones/south park reference gag!

The author constantly claiming the owls (dragons) are coming
Randomly placed phallic objects and unusual emphasis put on them
.....it all makes perfect sense now!
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Kaiser » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:54 pm

I'm not saying the storytelling is all bad. This particular aspect of it is bad, however, and I feel like it's getting worse in this regard which is starting to negatively impact my enjoyment of the story. This particular issue isn't quite as bad as the whole Hermione attack in a previous chapter or the castle infiltration from way back in the pre-timeskip days. It is distracting to me though, and I wish some more restraint was shown in when and where humor is inserted into the story. There is a time and place for it; with so much else going on, this is not the place.

Although I won't lie, I prefer a more deadpan type of humor than what we've been getting lately, but as long as it doesn't get out of hand, I can tolerate it.
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Whizzard » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:57 pm

The real issue isn't that the storylines mood is swinging around. The issue is that there are several intersecting storylines some serious but some such as Kiel's and Ariel's are light hearted and humorous. The issue results in apparently some readers unable to keep up with the moods of the intersecting plot lines.

Or rather the issue is that these events happen at the same time and can not be shown in sequence or timeline would get messed up. You would constantly be turning back time to show what happened at the same time creating mucho chaoz.
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Jiharn » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:04 pm

Obsidian Agent wrote:It's also an adequate response to claims of Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy.

"Hey, you think DT is bad? Check out THIS clusterfuck!"


I mean no offense or disagreement with your statement. But I've always been confused by how an argument would say something isn't bad because something else is worse. If something is already "bad", something that's worse just means a comparison between "bad" and "more bad" and does not change whether the original thing was "bad". Wouldn't it be more sensible to determine whether the current matter fits the standards for "bad" instead of how something else fits the standards for "bad"?
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Re: Chapter 46 : Page 54

Postby Obsidian Agent » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:20 pm

Jiharn wrote:
Obsidian Agent wrote:It's also an adequate response to claims of Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy.

"Hey, you think DT is bad? Check out THIS clusterfuck!"


I mean no offense or disagreement with your statement. But I've always been confused by how an argument would say something isn't bad because something else is worse. If something is already "bad", something that's worse just means a comparison between "bad" and "more bad" and does not change whether the original thing was "bad". Wouldn't it be more sensible to determine whether the current matter fits the standards for "bad" instead of how something else fits the standards for "bad"?


It's more a matter of perspective. Sometimes, when you see something bad enough, you'll look back on what you thought was bad originally, and then go "Huh, you know what? Maybe X wasn't so bad after all. Now that we've got Y to compare it to, I forget what was so bad about X in the first place." Sort of like on RPGNet, how "World of Synnibarr" was once the worst RPG reviewed there, but then was dethroned by "FATAL". And while "World of Synnibarr" is bad, it's the enjoyable kind of bad, as opposed to the atrocious kind of bad.
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