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Chapter 52 : Page 88

Re: Chapter 52 : Page 88

Postby Black Knight LeFreux » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:30 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:
Sadly, for all their power, they appear unable to properly plan out a fight and win.

Power can lead very quickly to arrogance.

Reminds me of a video series recently I watched on the Great Northern War, where the King of Sweden, through cunning, daring, and a damn fine army, manages to win a string of incredible victories against an alliance of major powers.
This quickly went to his head and turned down a chance to quite while he was ahead and proceeded to make disastrous move after disastrous move that he needed all his advantages just to survive, until the power of Sweden was ground to dust.


So you watch Extra History too ?

Man, I love their series ! Especially the one on Yi Sun-Shin. *the last episode always makes me cry, even if it's the hundredth time I watched it*
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Re: Chapter 52 : Page 88

Postby Moric » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:18 pm

Prove your power Faen! Burn her mind to pudding!
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Re: Chapter 52 : Page 88

Postby Junglefowl26 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:54 am

Smokehammer wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:
Right - except for the two times they brutally curbstomped our heroes in this very chapter. And how they were winning this fight not too long ago.
And the time a handful of them beat Silice and hundreds of Sarghress.
And the time they utterly defeated the Kavahini attack like they barely noticed it.
Matter of fact, the closest thing the Nids have had to a defeat in battle (acting as group as opposed to lone agents or Kalki and her posse running off on her own) in the entire comic is Nishi's attack on Snad, and even then Nishi failed in her primary goal of killing Snad, who then immediately took over the underworld, so still a Nid victory technically, if a Pyrrhic one.

How many times do the Nids have to win before our heroes are allowed a victory? What exactly do the Nids have to ****ing do to get some villain cred?

Man, if I have a pet peeve in modern media discourse, it is constant demands that the villains kill all the heroes and win forever or be dubbed buffoons that can't be taken seriously. Star Wars rebels, legend of Korra, World of Warcraft....just everywhere man.
(Well, oddly enough I rarely see these complaints leveled at Lord of the Rings and the original Star Wars triology, even though the villains rarely win in either of those)


The Nids also lost Femi.
The Nids also lost whatever coup they were trying to pull off in Nuqra.
In fact, according to legend, they even lost the Nidraa War 8)
They pretty much lose everytime we see them in important fights (but not the over all picture) because thats the roll of antagonists - to lose vs the protagonists.

I suppose how "villains" lose is the key to taking them seriously or not. The Demon God is a pretty good example of an antagonist we couldnt take seriously. Sarv'swati's Sharen might have been a decent foil but most of their victories were off screen so it feels like a serious rip off but the Nidraa? Theyve actually done some decent back & forth for "bad guys". It might be nice if say, there was an actual victory they had over the main cast instead of just extras like the Owls but I dunno. Too much of, "we got our asses kicked until the very end" is super cliche too so maybe Kern's attempting to show that the Nidraa simply cant handle Ariel & her friends, for whatever reason. -MY best guess would be teamwork. For example, if Sasi hadnt been worried about blasting the guys on the ground, and had gone to Jiaan's side -Ariel would be dead.



Smokehammer wrote:Though it seems like Ariel never gets to use her spear much anymore, always losing it and having to go fisticuffs.
That, and apparently she can hang on like a true descendant of the Peppermint Gorilla. *wee*

1. True. Though they still caught and killed the squad that was responsible. And the cure ended up back in their hands, just in time to get Snad more power like it was intended to.

(Side note, man, the flower plot feels like such an anti-climax in retrospect....)

2. Hmmm....I was more focusing on fight scenes, but yeah the faction they backed died. Still, they got the secondary goal of taking the airship, which has been a major boon to them, and succeeded in making the food situation in the underworld worse.
Plus, even the Naqs allying with Zala ended up being to Snad's benefit in the long run, since Snad hijacked the alliance...

Not saying it was all "all according to plan" but one has to given Snad credit for being able to bounce back from setbacks quickly and use the new situation to her advantage. Reminds me of David Xanatos - the key to being a good schemer is not always getting the best outcome, but setting things up that you benefit from any outcome.

3. Yes, also true. Still, I get the feeling that she mostly just sacrificed her most expendable assets and in turn crippled the most power clan and destabilized the entire political situation.

Also a good showing that even when the Nids do lose it is only at a terrible price to their foes.

And yeah, overall I agree - the hows of victory and defeat probably matter a lot more than the actual outcome. Again, Suaron didn't win often, but he just looked so scary that he worked as a villain - sometimes all you need is style. And personally I think Kern has done pretty well with the Nids here. Not so invincible that a last minute defeat feels out of nowhere, but every time they show up I know shit is about to fucked up real hard.

As to this particular battle - it makes sense to me. The heroes tried something clever yet desperate, the Nids were complacent and got caught off guard, and even then it is a close thing - and come to think of it, the heroes have taken more casualties (Apura, Durlyn, glasses golem pilot, Nergui) than the Nids (uh...just the one mook I think, since we see Jiaan still standing in this page)

Even as to what prompted the discussion on this page - Faen is just equaling Bae, stopping Bae from curbstomping everyone, using the well established ability of empaths to cancel each other out.

That, and apparently she can hang on like a true descendant of the Peppermint Gorilla.

True.

She has plenty of experience though.

Black Knight LeFreux wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:
Sadly, for all their power, they appear unable to properly plan out a fight and win.

Power can lead very quickly to arrogance.

Reminds me of a video series recently I watched on the Great Northern War, where the King of Sweden, through cunning, daring, and a damn fine army, manages to win a string of incredible victories against an alliance of major powers.
This quickly went to his head and turned down a chance to quite while he was ahead and proceeded to make disastrous move after disastrous move that he needed all his advantages just to survive, until the power of Sweden was ground to dust.


So you watch Extra History too ?

Man, I love their series ! Especially the one on Yi Sun-Shin. *the last episode always makes me cry, even if it's the hundredth time I watched it*

Oh yes, I love that show, and in fact used it as a bit of a teaching aide when I was TAing for a history course (I mean, they aren't always 100% accurate but I thought they were good enough for a low level course, and presented the material in a fun and easy to understand manner) and yeah I especially love the episodes about Admiral Yi.

Now there is someone who would be called a Mary Sue protagonist if he was fictional :P

Though, so many good episodes it is hard to choose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYz0y5xUqmk
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Re: Chapter 52 : Page 88

Postby GrantedWhim » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:31 am

Nice, we're halfway through the fight! As they are now on stage 3, bargaining. =3
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Re: Chapter 52 : Page 88

Postby Lordpanther14 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:39 am

Felis'nuul for the block, good use of that armor :)
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Re: Chapter 52 : Page 88

Postby El Bandito » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:33 pm

Love to see Faen grow, either way. :)
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